Is this list beardy?

As I have the week off and my wife is on holiday with her mother, I have used the opportunity to get 3 games in, one with Necrons and two with Chaos.

The Necrons faced off against Tau (I expected Guard, but the difference is small, they just sit there and shoot) and managed to score a win, mostly due to me seizing the initiative and advancing my whole army into charge range on turn 2. He also played into my hands by having a Riptide advance out of his deployment zone where it promptly got stabbed by a Warscythe. It was his first game with Tau, so it was to be expected that he didn’t have a full handle on them. My 20 Warriors redeemed themselves in this game by dying to a man, but only after absorbing two rounds of shooting and a round of Overwatch fire. I think I got about 17 models back due to the Resurrection Orb and Ghost Ark. That was the way I envisioned them to work. In addition, the  Annihilation Barges rocked as his whole army camped in a cluster, so I would always roll at least 4 extra dice for their arking shots.

But the main focus of this post is to discuss my new Chaos List. It is in essence my fourth Chaos Army after a generic mix of Legions in 2nd Edition, an Iron Warriors army in 3rd Edition (I know, I was one of those guys who ran 4 pie plates and 6 Obliterators, back when I didn’t know any better) and then Alpha Legion in 4th. The Alpha Legion is still my favourite legion and giving everyone Infiltrate for 1 point was great, though maybe also a bit cheesy. Unfortunately, the new Codex made them fairly generic, with the only way to get Infiltrate being to field Huron Blackheart, erm I mean Alpharius, to give at least 1d3 units that skill or Cypher, I mean Alpharius, to field Chosen with Infiltrate. That and the fact that regular Chaos Space Marines are just too expensive compared to their Imperial counterparts, having to pay for a pointless Champion and not having And They Shall Know No Fear meant that the army is not really floating my boat right now. So these days I am rocking Nurgle with an allied Khorne daemon contingent.

 

The army looks like this:

Chaos Lord of Nurgle: Bike, 4+ Invulnerable, Power fist and Lightning Claw, Veteran of the Long War (VotLW from now on)

Chaos Sorcerer: Bike, Force Staff, VotLW, 4+ Invulnerable, Spell Familiar, Mastery Level 3

6 Bikers of Nurgle: VotLW, 2 Plasmaguns, Champion with a Power fist

The Bikers are joined by the Lord and Sorcerer who rolls three times on the Telepathy list to hopefully get Invisibility for that sweet 2+ cover save once the Bikes have moved.

7 Plague Marines: VotLW, Rhino, 2 Meltaguns, Champion with Power fist and Combi-Meltagun

10 Cultists: Because someone has to sit on an objective on turn 5. They always go into Reserves as there is no point having them on the field early on.

 

5 Chaos Spawns: Mark of Nurgle

Heldrake: Baleflamer

Maulerfiend

 

Bloodthirster: Exalted Reward (normally Portalglyph unless I get lucky and roll a 1 for Portalglyph and a Lesser Reward), Greater Reward (they have the best defensive ones to keep him safe)

10 Bloodletters of Khorne

15 Fleshhounds of Khorne

 

This is the 2000 points list. At 2500 I added:

14 Cultists: Flamer

+1 Flamer for the 10 Cultists

10 Chaos Space Marines: VotLW, 2 Meltaguns, Chainswords, Bolt Pistols and Bolters, Champion with Power Fist and Combi-Melta.

2 Obliterators of Nurgle

 

And finally, if I ran the list today, I would change the following:

– 14 Cultists

+10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle

-10 Chaos Space Marines

+ 7 Plague Marines: Rhino, VotLW, 2 Plasmaguns, Champion with Power fist and Combi-Plasma

– 4+ Invulnerable on the Sorcerer (he has a Lord and a Champion to hide behind).

 

As you can see, this is a list that is designed to be in your face in turn 2 or even 1 if you get out of your deployment zone before my turn. The Bikers, Spawns, Maulerfiend all have move 12, the Bloodthirster 12 and then can still charge or 24 and no charge, while the real allstars, the Hounds, have a 12-inch move after Scouting, so they can charge on turn 1 if the opponent starts the game (12-inch Scout move, 12-inch regular move and you are basically on the edge of the opponent’s deployment zone with a 2d6 charge with fleet to get into combat where they bring 45 WS5 S5 attacks in round 1) or be guaranteed to be in range of just about anything in turn 2 with a minimum move of 39 inches by then. The mobility aspect of the list is aided by the insane durability of the main units as the Bloodthirster, Lord, Bikers and Spawns all rock toughness 6, so Hive Tyrant or Tervigon-level toughness, whereas the Hounds have 2 wounds and a 5+ invulnerable for the cost of a Marine. And Heldrakes kill a unit of infantry per round. It is known.

On the other hand, as there is barely any shooting in turn 1 (2 plasmaguns in the 2000 points list and two additional Obliterators in the 2500 list), the odds of giving up First Blood are quite high unless I get offered a first turn charge on some scouting or infiltrating unit. There are also very few units in the army, with the 3 characters alone taking up over 650 points and none of the other units being cheap, apart from the sacrificial Cultists.

 

So, if you are still bearing with me and increasingly wondering about the title of this diatribe, here comes the question. Well, in a minute. As you know if you follow my blog, I have been gaming for 18 years now and have somewhat of a reputation as a player to beat in the shop and community I usually play in. Apparently, there is a saying in the local GW: ‘Life is hard, but Charles is harder.’ This reputation obviously means that some people avoid playing me and I have been actively trying to tone down my lists (see my switch from Eldar to Necrons and the avoidance of going CronAir in that list) to make games more enjoyable for my opponents and thus increase the odds of finding more opponents. I think that behaviour-wise I am doing OK, as I always give my opponent take-backsies, try to communicate efficiently, i.e. always declaring my rolls and how much I need even if we both know that a Marine hits on a 3+ to avoid misunderstandings (something I picked up playing Magic) and avoid power-gaming manoeuvres like Barrage Sniping and other rules abuses. Granted, I can trashtalk quite well, but only if my opponent goes along with it. So I was fairly surprised when my regular adversary, Chris, said that he felt poorly after our games, especially yesterday’s one. So this got me thinking if I really am making progress in embracing the casual side. I know that I have a preference to run aggressive lists and that some players take poorly to being put under pressure on the board by turn 2 (note that I am not aggressive, just my lists) and that I spend a lot of time refining my lists to see what works best, so that might be a reason why.  

As there is another casual event in April I intend to go to and plan to run this list, I genuinely wish to know: Would you consider this list broken, beardy or cheesy or whatever other word you use for power-gaming? Do you think you’d enjoy playing against it? Or is it me? I know that this could get personal very quickly, but I thought I’d give it a shot, but for me and my future opponents. So fire away in the comments section.

 

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3 thoughts on “Is this list beardy?

  1. To recognize a cheesy list it takes a cheesemonger. To recognize a beardy list it takes another dwarf. You get the point, right?

    This CSM list outruns any Eldar Pirates in terms of speed & power (both dealing damage and absorbing it). Be those hounds with their biker buddies real deathstars or just two deathtrabants is no fact changer since you have tooooo many menaces to handle at one time. A flanking Blood Daemon with its warpportalthingy, a flanking Maulerfiend, Nurgle bikers and a fastly advancing hound flock. All of those units absorb damage quite well and still have enough punch when shrivelled.

    As a coldly grinning waiter you serve death and despair at every table corner. For me, that’s too much to handle. And that goes in almost the same manner for your Eldar Flying Circus and your Golden Age Bots.

    You make a poor choice in asking me for a game. I’m not on the same level as you, not even close. You play anticipating a fair amount of rounds ahead and assess several eventualities at the same time. I do not – I cannot. Not in this game. If you would play more 40k in the Spielbar, you’d find more challenging opponents, I guess. There’ll you face several cheesebeards to play with. I guess you’re just looking for love in all the wrong places…

    It does not matter what do you think others think after playing against you, as long as they still do it again. So, bloody yeah, you’re doing great behavior-wise, you’re both funny, respectable, and easy to like. Your lists are challenging, so it comes to others to beat those lists or fail trying. If you really want to embrace more casual-gaming, go with the fluff: look for mono-god chaos lists or go with a limited choice of units based around a background story from all those source books you have. So maybe you’d like to drop the fliers, for fielding only ground forces. I hate those fliers. After the last game I thought about dying my hair orange and become a Slayer 😉

    You already put down the reasons why you are such a good gamer: you play aggressive lists, refine them a lot of times and play a lot to get a hang for those lists. That’s a strength of you! Keep it. Just become yourself more clear on what levels your opponents are.

  2. Pingback: Trimming the beard, part 2 | wargamer31married2puppies

  3. Landaro says:

    Until now I was a silent reader of the blog, but as blogs live and thrive on the interaction with the readers…
    The list is cheesy. I am not getting even half of it, but the fact that the whole army is in close combat in round 2 negates my Dark Angels. Being Space Marines they prefer to have at least 2-3 rounds of shooting to lighten the enemy ranks. And my Sisters just have their armor returned from the cleaners and would appreciate that you stay at a few inches away and take a bath in promethium…
    As Pinselknecht pointed out, I wouldn’t even know what to target first. Maybe using my rhinos as shield and at least try to slow the advance…

    As for your 2nd question: I would even play with my sisters against you. Setting up the table might take longer than the actual game, but still. From the few games I played with/against you, I always learned new things. And as the game will only take a few minutes, you might have time to tell me what you would have done to prolong the inevitable death of the Adepta Sororitas 🙂
    But knowing that most of the players at the meeting in April are casual players who are happy to play their maybe only game for 2014, you might consider giving them the option to veto that list. Or just use D4 instead of D6

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